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Pub League Feedback

Unread postby Llarian » Wed Jul 3, 2013 2:59:46 pm

Where you happy with how were the team and rosters managed: Somewhat. Like Max mentioned, we were on both sides of subs that were too strong for pub league. Subs should not be able to affect the balance of play in my opinion. I'd much rather have more non-sub people per team and rotate out more often than have FC players (or equivalent) playing on teams on a regular basis. I'd also like to see a substitution/forefit rule in place. Maybe something like, if a team doesn't field enough of their "primary" players to play, they forfeit the 3 points, but get substitutions and the game progresses as basically a friendly. Honestly, I LOVED the games where we were completely overmatched from a playing perspective, but from a competitive perspective it was infuriating.

Where you happy with how were the games were managed: No complaints. I would've liked more regular updates of the league table and such.

Where you happy with how were the games were reffed: A couple times the whistle was too soft, or the ref not assertive enough, and I felt because of that the game got away from them. We also had a situation where the ref was frustrated at not being able to stop play, but wasn't loud enough to be heard. Wasn't a very fun match.

Where you happy with the field, ball, kit conditions: Field yes. We got crap balls now and again, but it wasn't the end of the world.

Where you happy with the locations and times: Loved it.

How many players should be on a roster? How many is too many?: More than we had, due to few teams all being present. Add maybe 2-3 people per team on the "primary" roster, acknowledging that could mean more substitutions. (See my comment about a forfeit rule above)

Should we expand the league to more teams? If we do how would the 11 a side work?: I loved the full field friendly, but if that's the barrier to having 6 or 8 teams, bring on the extra teams! The more people we expose to the game the better.

Should we scratch 11 a side in favor of a bigger league?: (See above)

Should teams be allowed to stay together? I'd like to say yes. I love me team, we have a lot of fun, and despite what people thought initially things seemed pretty balanced. However, I'm going to contradict myself below when I talk about pre-built teams, so I could go either way here. (I'd still prefer to stick with my team from last season however)

Can we allow prebuilt teams? How would they be judged skill wise to be make sure they are kept within the spirit of ECSPL?: This is difficult. My initial inclination is to say no, because they likely have outside practice time. However, this is a league that's built of up people with honorable intentions from what I can tell. If somebody wants to recruit some players with pub-league level skills and enter them as a team, I think the might be kinda fun. The key is how strong of players are they? We did that "try-out" sort of week the weekend before the league proper starts, can always have them play there? If somebody wants to try to throw the league and sandbag the tryouts, I guess that's a risk, but if that happens that could be dealt with, I honestly don't think it would. If we're talking about a GSSL team getting bored and entering themselves though, that'd be a problem for sure.

The pricing for Pub League will move to the club pricing which is $10-12 per game on average? Would this affect your decision to play?: I'll play, I was surprised at the price, I'd expected it to be around $120 anyways. I think much more than that and we start pricing people out.
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Unread postby Skarpian » Wed Jul 3, 2013 3:05:02 pm

bobdavisnpf wrote:Every time a team is added, every player is draft-eligible. The new coach and League Leadership conduct the draft in a smoke-filled room, tell the draftees, then deal with the whining by soliciting bribes.


This is my favorite idea by far. We hold a day of training to evaluate skills and then...

Drunken ECSPL draft day at the AC! Complete with beer bribes!
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Unread postby SeattleCalcio » Thu Jul 4, 2013 1:43:33 am

I hate drafts, I'd go with a free agency. Each coach buys a max of 30 beers (salary cap) and can negotiate contracts with players using beer as payment.
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Unread postby Llarian » Thu Jul 4, 2013 10:21:32 am

hahaha. I love the idea of a draft, or beer-based salary cap.
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Unread postby wampXstomp » Fri Jul 5, 2013 10:47:21 am

We want to know how things went, by answer or bring up question like the ones listed below.

We want to know how things went, by answer or bring up question like the ones listed below.

Where you happy with how were the team and rosters managed
Where you happy with how were the games were managed
Yes, Felt like every team was managed well.

Where you happy with how were the games were reffed
Overall Yes. At times the amount of calls for a bad through in even though there was no advantage for it got frustrating and killed what ever flow (pub league flow) the game had. Understand we are all learning but at the same time we are there Having Fun and a warning would do next time ref passes that player. Also some refs need to blow their whistle louder. Really put some air in that thing.

Where you happy with the field, ball, kit conditions
Field was great, Balls were good most the time, Kits were a great addition obviously something more breathable than a tshirt would be nice but for price the tshirts were great.

Where you happy with the locations and times
etc..., etc... you get the picture

Loved having a Set location every week. Prefer Lower Woodland but the BoysNGirls club was great and helped a lot of people because of the light rail being walking distance. So location was excellent.
At first I did not like the 12:00 time and prefered the 9:00 but got use to it and it didn't matter. 10:00 would be my favorite choice but whatever needs to be done to keep this going is great.

There are many open questions that where feed back would be appreciated on the future of ECSPL. Such as:

How many players should be on a roster? How many is too many?
I'm not sure what the number was set for this last session but it seemed to be just about right. 3-4 subs 7-8 on field.

Should we expand the league to more teams? If we do how would the 11 a side work?
Yes more teams. No, on 11 a side. Enjoy the smaller teams and would like more teams. I feel the small field game with smaller numbers allows us pub leaguers to get more time on the ball to improve quality of play.

Should we scratch 11 a side in favor of a bigger league?
Yes. Would be great to have say 8 teams. 4 play in first hour other 4 play in second hour.

Should teams be allowed to stay together?
Yes and No. I would like the consistency but also like the change and playing with new people. Maybe if there is two season a year a team stays together as much as possible for those two seasons then the next year we have new teams.

Can we allow prebuilt teams? How would they be judged skill wise to be make sure they are kept within the spirit of ECSPL?
The pricing for Pub League will move to the club pricing which is $10-12 per game on average? Would this affect your decision to play?


Do not like the idea of prebuilt teams. Pub League has become about making new friends and relationships in ECS and hope it stays that way. Prebuilt teams would end up being two teams of all friends and 4 teams put together. Keep it the way it is.
That pricing is fine.
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Unread postby phlebotomist » Fri Jul 5, 2013 11:17:08 am

Where you happy with how were the team and rosters managed
>>Yes - I am grateful for the hard work put in by league managers.

Where you happy with how were the games were managed
>>Biggest gripe about games was the issue of subs - seemed like some subs were ringers, and it's unfair (maybe impossible) to expect talented subs to dumb down their play. Not sure how to handle this - maybe the suggestion made by someone else to count it as a forfeit (for table purposes) if a team fields subs, but allow play to proceed?

Where you happy with how were the games were reffed
>>Generally yes. I'll echo the concern made by others that on a few occasions, the ref was too quiet with his voice and whistle.

Where you happy with the field, ball, kit conditions
>>Yes, very.

Where you happy with the locations and times
>>Yes, very. I liked the B&G club location on MLK, and also liked having it be the same place every week, but would gladly accept otherwise if the alternative was PL not occurring. Would be fine with earlier start-time (like maybe 10am) but noon is good. One suggestion would be to make the announced start time the time when league management actually wants people to show up - if you want people there at 11:30, with play to start at noon, the published start time should be 11:30.

How many players should be on a roster? How many is too many?
>>I don't know - ideally 10-11, with 12-13 being too many? I have no experience with team management.

Should we expand the league to more teams? If we do how would the 11 a side work?
>>I'm in favor of including as many people as possible if the demand is there and it won't dilute people's playing time or enjoyment. Short-field team/league play should take priority over 11-a-side.

Should we scratch 11 a side in favor of a bigger league?
>>Yes

Should teams be allowed to stay together?
>>I really liked my team (4Loko 4-evah) and part of me wants to be able to play with the same group again next year, but reflecting on what I love about Pub League, it's the focus above all on simply playing the game, gaining skills, and having fun. Having a team identity can be fun, as well as a good motivator, but teams that persist from season to season could be a distraction. My vote would be to mix it up - make new teams at the start of every season.

Can we allow prebuilt teams? How would they be judged skill wise to be make sure they are kept within the spirit of ECSPL?
>>I'd vote No on pre-built teams.

The pricing for Pub League will move to the club pricing which is $10-12 per game on average? Would this affect your decision to play?
>>No.
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Unread postby UnitedSounder » Fri Jul 5, 2013 12:13:34 pm

wampXstomp wrote:Should we scratch 11 a side in favor of a bigger league?
Yes. Would be great to have say 8 teams. 4 play in first hour other 4 play in second hour.


Hmmm... It hadn't occurred to me that we might be talking about dropping the 11-a-side, but only playing in one game. But on reading this, I realized that may have been what was intended. I would be in favor of dropping the full fielded game if every team gets to play two games, but would be more hesitant if it meant only 50 minutes of playing time a week. I'd definitely like to get two games in one way or the other.
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Unread postby Skarpian » Fri Jul 5, 2013 1:11:03 pm

UnitedSounder wrote:
wampXstomp wrote:Should we scratch 11 a side in favor of a bigger league?
Yes. Would be great to have say 8 teams. 4 play in first hour other 4 play in second hour.


Hmmm... It hadn't occurred to me that we might be talking about dropping the 11-a-side, but only playing in one game. But on reading this, I realized that may have been what was intended. I would be in favor of dropping the full fielded game if every team gets to play two games, but would be more hesitant if it meant only 50 minutes of playing time a week. I'd definitely like to get two games in one way or the other.


To clarify on this subject then ( and I am open to suggestions) If we added let say 2-4 more teams. We would then have 4 teams play the first 50 min and 2-4 teams play the second 50 min. So you would only get one game a day. If we continued 11v11 then the guys that played the first hour would have to wait around an hour and we would have to add on a 3rd hour.

I don't honestly see people from the first games wanting to sit around, but I could be wrong. At the same time sitting cold for a hour and then playing again leads to injuries cause you get cold.

So yeah these are all things we have to think about when making final decisions and that is why I am looking to see which way the majority leans.
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Unread postby phlebotomist » Fri Jul 5, 2013 1:20:39 pm

Yeah, I am favor of including more people and would be fine with losing 11-a-side to do so, but not at the cost of reducing everyone's playing time significantly (from two hours).
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Unread postby dj10 » Fri Jul 5, 2013 1:28:42 pm

Even though overall attendance was great, it did feel like a lot of people were opting out of the 11v11 match, especially in the second half of the season.

To those of you that didn't play in the 11v11 half of the two-hour period, can you give us some feedback on your reasons for that? Too tired/injured? Other obligations? Something else?
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Unread postby phlebotomist » Fri Jul 5, 2013 1:48:19 pm

dj10 wrote:To those of you that didn't play in the 11v11 half of the two-hour period, can you give us some feedback on your reasons for that? Too tired/injured? Other obligations? Something else?


I'm not the audience you were addressing, but as someone who stuck around every time for 11v11, I had a blast playing full field. It was a chance to burn off whatever energy was left after the short field game, try out stuff I was learning on a "real" field, play on the same side as people normally on other PL teams, etc. Personally, I'm happy to lose all that if it means more people can join Pub League, and especially if it means more people enjoy themselves. I'm curious to hear if that would be the case.
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Unread postby vallenato78 » Fri Jul 5, 2013 3:00:43 pm

phlebotomist wrote:
dj10 wrote:To those of you that didn't play in the 11v11 half of the two-hour period, can you give us some feedback on your reasons for that? Too tired/injured? Other obligations? Something else?


I'm not the audience you were addressing, but as someone who stuck around every time for 11v11, I had a blast playing full field. It was a chance to burn off whatever energy was left after the short field game, try out stuff I was learning on a "real" field, play on the same side as people normally on other PL teams, etc. Personally, I'm happy to lose all that if it means more people can join Pub League, and especially if it means more people enjoy themselves. I'm curious to hear if that would be the case.



Me too. Although I would stick around and play more short field matches too. I just loved having 2 hours of playing time with a bunch of nice folks.
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Unread postby dtree » Sun Jul 7, 2013 1:27:58 pm

Were you happy with how were the team and rosters managed?
I was absolutely astounded at how well the teams were balanced. Sure, there were a couple of players who's skills put them beyond the pub league average, but I believe that these players are essential in order to improve the quality on the pitch. Since we were not meeting up for practices during the week and pub league is in place in order to teach folks the basics of the game in the first place, having a couple of players who can teach from the pitch (without dominating the game) is an incredibly useful tool for education.
Were you happy with how were the games were managed?
I was, however, if someone is managing a team it is imperative for them to be at every match. Our team was coached by a bunch of different people throughout the season which led to inconsistencies in tactics, formations, subbing, which hindered our ability to grow as a team.
Were you happy with how were the games were reffed?
The only problem I saw was inconsistencies between refs. Some took it extremely seriously, while others were a bit more lenient. I know that's like the real world, but we are learning here and it would be beneficial to agree on a solid set of rules. This is just a small point though. I think the guys who stepped up to ref did a fantastic job and THANK YOU so much for your time.
Were you happy with the field, ball, kit conditions?
It was fine as long as we continue to let everyone wear what type of jerseys they want. Though I loved the shirts and am so happy we had them, breathable, light-weight jerseys are just better to play in.
Were you happy with the locations and times?
Very much!
How many players should be on a roster? How many is too many?
This is hard to say because though I would prefer smaller sides to allow paid members more time on the ball, the truth is, without subs, some teams would not have been able to field a full team. If we play 8 a side, 12 players on the roster should be plenty. I do think we need to be more careful about non-pub league subs dictating the game. If a team doesn't have enough of their original team to play, they should take a forfeit and treat the game as a friendly.
Should we expand the league to more teams? If we do how would the 11 a side work?
Depends on the demand and how we would restructure the league. I believe the 11 a side is an incredibly important tool for taking what one has learned in the small sided games and applying it to a real game situation. It also allows those who have showed up to sub and those who may not have gotten much playing time, a chance to play. If you add more teams, the eleven a side would have to be tossed (unless you implement bye weeks) due to time constraints. This would also limit playing time to 50 minutes (minus time for subbing) a week. If we increase the price, would this be worth it? As it stands, some teams struggled to send out a roster of their original players. Would increasing the amount of teams further perpetuate this leading to even more issues with non-paying, ringer subs?
Should we scratch 11 a side in favor of a bigger league?
As long as we get two games a week, I would be fine with that. I certainly do not want to add more teams if it means less playing time.
Should teams be allowed to stay together?
If we are not expanding the league, I see no problem with this. If we do end up expanding, you may have to shuffle the teams to keep the balance. I do have to say though, having the open tryouts then being placed on teams led to some incredibly even teams. Not only that, it allowed me to play with others I may not have met otherwise. On a side note, seeing how much passion put into developing team spirit through crests, names, facebook pages, was really cool to see.
Can we allow prebuilt teams? How would they be judged skill wise to be make sure they are kept within the spirit of ECSPL?
If we do expand and keep these teams in place, I see no problem in prebulit teams. As long as these prebuilt teams are not stacked with ecsfc players and ringers, this may be a way to encourage people to stick with pub league and take it more seriously. If you are held accountable by your peers to show up and improve, development should come more quickly and naturally.
The pricing for Pub League will move to the club pricing which is $10-12 per game on average? Would this affect your decision to play?
I think it's a very reasonable cost for what we experienced last season. If Pub League is restructured to allow for more teams (potentially reducing playing time), I assume the cost will be reduced. Other wise, more money for less product doesn't seem very fair. That being said, I'd still pay whatever you asked me to pay.
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Unread postby Skarpian » Mon Jul 8, 2013 8:02:21 am

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Friendly bump to keep it going.
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Unread postby casey133 » Mon Jul 8, 2013 7:50:16 pm

dj10 wrote:Even though overall attendance was great, it did feel like a lot of people were opting out of the 11v11 match, especially in the second half of the season.

To those of you that didn't play in the 11v11 half of the two-hour period, can you give us some feedback on your reasons for that? Too tired/injured? Other obligations? Something else?


Too gassed, worried about pulling a muscle. However I regret it, I think next time if it's available I should brave up and join in. On the other hand if we forgo the 11v11 for more teams I'm all in favor of that.
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