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Another About Last Night

Unread postby aeolsen » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:03:12 am

shadesofgrey wrote:
Nikolai wrote:It can never just be about the boys on the pitch and the soccer being played can it? The moment we need to push our team to hold onto the win, despite the unfortunate draw. It has to be about some outside situation doesn't it?

When you enter the stadium and take your spot on the Brougham End. Anything outside of that should be separate and disconnected. When we're getting into why or why not we should sing a certain song we're forgetting why we even sing in the first place. The purpose of us even being there is to 100% focus on what's in front of us and to do what we need to do to help our team win. Nothing else should have influence. The only question that should be had is "does this song at this time push the boys to a potential victory?". If the answer is yes then we sing it, if no then we don't. It really needs to be that simple.

It sounds insensitive because it is. The football gods don't care about anything but winners and losers. They don't care what day it is or what the FO decided to do for a money grab. Yes, the rainbow fanfare is about money too.

I think it needs to be reminded to everyone why we're there and if you're not completely there for 90 minutes with one purpose and one mindset then you're possibly in the wrong section. If you can't sepereate yourself from the outside world like most of us do, you might have bigger priorities. For many of us, supporting at a match is our escape from the grind and rat race of daily life. We come to forget everything else and focus on one purpose and one result. Now, don't get me wrong, I love my friends in POTS, they know this. However, there is a lot to learn about what being there in the section for the boys and the boys alone means. When we let a terrorist influence what we do on matchday in the moment of willing our club to victory then the terrorist has the last laugh. Like futbol girl said, we should do more and sing louder, not less.

To put it simply... You're wrong. It was ECS holding up a Tifo to show everyone that we are celebrating pride and we stand in solidarity with Orlando and the pulse Massacre. We may be there to push the team to win but we are also there to support each other and in doing so we need to create a safe space for all who come.

But I guess that could just be my opinion.

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He actually isn't wrong. Supporters sections aren't for everyone. That's why supporters and fans and casual fans are different. Supporters put aside their differences and their goal is to support their team/club to victory. Hell South American supporters are a great example of this. Some of the neighborhoods hate each other, come together to support their club and then go back to hating each other.
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Unread postby vallenato78 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:59:29 am

shadesofgrey wrote:
Nikolai wrote:It can never just be about the boys on the pitch and the soccer being played can it? The moment we need to push our team to hold onto the win, despite the unfortunate draw. It has to be about some outside situation doesn't it?

When you enter the stadium and take your spot on the Brougham End. Anything outside of that should be separate and disconnected. When we're getting into why or why not we should sing a certain song we're forgetting why we even sing in the first place. The purpose of us even being there is to 100% focus on what's in front of us and to do what we need to do to help our team win. Nothing else should have influence. The only question that should be had is "does this song at this time push the boys to a potential victory?". If the answer is yes then we sing it, if no then we don't. It really needs to be that simple.

It sounds insensitive because it is. The football gods don't care about anything but winners and losers. They don't care what day it is or what the FO decided to do for a money grab. Yes, the rainbow fanfare is about money too.

I think it needs to be reminded to everyone why we're there and if you're not completely there for 90 minutes with one purpose and one mindset then you're possibly in the wrong section. If you can't sepereate yourself from the outside world like most of us do, you might have bigger priorities. For many of us, supporting at a match is our escape from the grind and rat race of daily life. We come to forget everything else and focus on one purpose and one result. Now, don't get me wrong, I love my friends in POTS, they know this. However, there is a lot to learn about what being there in the section for the boys and the boys alone means. When we let a terrorist influence what we do on matchday in the moment of willing our club to victory then the terrorist has the last laugh. Like futbol girl said, we should do more and sing louder, not less.

To put it simply... You're wrong. It was ECS holding up a Tifo to show everyone that we are celebrating pride and we stand in solidarity with Orlando and the pulse Massacre. We may be there to push the team to win but we are also there to support each other and in doing so we need to create a safe space for all who come.

But I guess that could just be my opinion.

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From day 1 ECS has been vocal about not allowing any racist, homophobic or other prejudiced language or attitudes, as far as I know that holds true today. As for the song itself, I personally don't think there is anything wrong with singing it, but given that it was a pride match vs Orlando, I can see maybe not doing it for that one match.
I have seen and heard of others asking for it to be eliminated completely from our song list and that is something I cannot agree with. I am always open to conversation and to listen, but at this point I don't see anything wrong with this chant.
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Unread postby Mel » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:37:05 am

My very first match with the ECS in 2009 I went to a capo mocked two men holding on to different poles of a two pole and with the bullhorn was joking, "we don't want two men on one pole here". So while the ECS has been vocal about not allowing any homophobic language or attitudes in theory that hasn't been the case in practice. I was getting a very strong message that I didn't belong here. I'm thankful that PoTS exists now, because while I felt helpless in that exchange, I feel like with a unified voice we could let someone know that's not okay.

The argument that we should just be here for the boys and supporting them and the supporters section isn't for everyone can be very divisive. I feel like members of Pride of the Sound bring a lot to contribute to the ECS as a whole, and that the unified input of the group can make the ECS better supporters, and that our experiences are valuable. Same with La Barra, the Femmes, and the Armed Services Group. It would be easy to exclude any of these groups and say well the supporters section just isn't for them. Pride of the Sound meshes with what the ECS stands for, all of these subgroups do. We are trying to create a space where we feel safe to exist so we can support with you, but that doesn't mean performing support necessarily in a heteronormative way. I know people weren't saying that PoTS shouldn't exist or anything like that, but it starts treading on dangerous territory when this point is made.

Seattle sports teams are being very vocal about pride season this year. Many members of Pride of the Sound are marching with Levesque because he's one of the Pride Parade grand marshalls. We are here to bring visibility to issues, to create spaces were we can be ultra supporters and active as well, because it should just be about the boys. But if people make a space unsafe or make casually homophobic comments or gestures then it can't just be about the boys.

I feel like if members of the Portsc*m queer community had died in a major fire or waves of birds had come and shit on many of them causing deaths and we were playing them for a pride match, I would probably have an issue singing build a bonfire or shit on the bastards below. I know some people have issues with Take 'em All overall especially as shootings become more and more common and in this case Pride is our lives and not just once a year. I personally am not saying let's never sing it again, but some people do have that viewpoint. Pride is our lives and not just a once a year thing.

I'm glad people are contributing to this, but this is pride season and the massacre at Pulse was very much on the forefront of many of our minds in PoTS. It's a big deal to us.
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Unread postby Sxcostanzo » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:44:01 am

Just as a focus point for me.
1. I don't think there is a damn thing wrong with the chant
2. It was not done out of malice of forethought. It was done (IMO) because the section got quiet and the capo (who has a shit ton of stuff going through their head) reached into their back pocket and pulled out a chant they they knew would work.
3. As multiple people have pointed out - it's just at this point in the universe. Just at this moment where the Tifo crew specifically invited and focused on the LGBT community. That community was mourning the 1 year anniversary of the shooting a year ago, it was in our Tifo and it was our thoughts.

So my question is this - why is it wrong to have asked that because of this day and this one specific time that something not be done?

I mean as much as I hate Portland, if they had their bleachers catch fire and 100 of their supporters died in the flames, I don't think singing "Build a Bonfire" would be appropriate at their next match. If we go with the "sepereate yourself from the outside world like most of us do" mentality then we should ignore it and sing it loud and proud. But if that gets done, I'm going to sit down again because that shit ain't right.

On a side note - i'm glad people can separate themselves from the outside world during a match. It would be great if that would happen, but for some people at some times, life does intrude and if we can't support our family then what are we here for? Because we are supporters of our club, our boys and ourselves - Us vs. Them.
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Unread postby vallenato78 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:48:36 am

Definitely, I hear you there. I am a latino and I have heard (especially years back) all sorts of nasty comments in the GA, I never said that they didn't happen. I also agree that that type of behavior should not be tolerated. When Barra started there were some that were very vocal in their opposition to its existence. I love our diversity and I feel that subgroups add to our strength and that includes Barra and POTS.
I totally get why some people would have issue with that song being sung vs Orlando while the Pulse shooting is so fresh. My point is that the song Take em All is in my opinion not homophobic, racist or prejudiced in any way. I don't understand the calls to remove it completely. If some have differing opinions on this I would love to hear them.
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Unread postby vallenato78 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:52:07 am

Sxcostanzo wrote:Just as a focus point for me.
1. I don't think there is a damn thing wrong with the chant
2. It was not done out of malice of forethought. It was done (IMO) because the section got quiet and the capo (who has a shit ton of stuff going through their head) reached into their back pocket and pulled out a chant they they knew would work.
3. As multiple people have pointed out - it's just at this point in the universe. Just at this moment where the Tifo crew specifically invited and focused on the LGBT community. That community was mourning the 1 year anniversary of the shooting a year ago, it was in our Tifo and it was our thoughts.

So my question is this - why is it wrong to have asked that because of this day and this one specific time that something not be done?

I mean as much as I hate Portland, if they had their bleachers catch fire and 100 of their supporters died in the flames, I don't think singing "Build a Bonfire" would be appropriate at their next match. If we go with the "sepereate yourself from the outside world like most of us do" mentality then we should ignore it and sing it loud and proud. But if that gets done, I'm going to sit down again because that shit ain't right.

On a side note - i'm glad people can separate themselves from the outside world during a match. It would be great if that would happen, but for some people at some times, life does intrude and if we can't support our family then what are we here for? Because we are supporters of our club, our boys and ourselves - Us vs. Them.

Great post! Unless I am mistaken, I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for it not to be sung for that match....I get it. Read Kyle's post, he is an amazing capo and he got it too. The issue that some are debating is the complete removal of the song....something I do not agree with at all.
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Unread postby Nizzle » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:01:37 am

Just to put this one specific point to rest- PotS' official stance is to not get rid of the song.
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Unread postby Llarian » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:04:12 am

There have definitely been issues in the past. CCL in particular tended to bring out some racist bullshit, we've heard Puto and other things in the section in the past.

ECS now isn't ECS 6 years ago. We've made our stance very very clear, and the people who were responsible for most of the bullshit are gone.

Good riddance.
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Unread postby futbolgirl » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:25:20 pm

I'm sorry that circumstances led to this thread, but I love this thread.

I can write that statement because I am a complicated person in a complicated world, and being a Sounders supporter is very complicated.

This is the supporter group we want. All voices coming together to support the Sounders. This intersectionality doesn't mean that we won't trip over each other from time to time, but these threads are so vital to hearing the experiences of others and then TAKING THEM INTO ACCOUNT. Unity is not all of us changing into the same; unity is our being different and choosing to band together.

Bravo to all the brave people sharing their stories here. I truly believe there is strength in our diversity and immense power in our unity.
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Unread postby constellationco » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:38:05 pm

Fwiw, I also struggled hearing this chant in light of the shooting of Charleena Lyles in front of her kids 3 days prior. Like others have stated, during the match I'm still all the other things that make up my life - wife, business owner, mother to a black son. I kneel during the anthem for him, and during this chant, I think about the future he faces and worry about gun violence. I can't help it. Some days I can separate myself enough to yell the words and get hype with the section, some days I can't.

But I also know that Tom and Heather have gone to bat for me several times on other issues, and that they hear and care about this stuff. I think as a group we can all do a better job of bringing concerns to them directly instead of tweeting about it or posting something to the forum that could get missed. I'm as guilty of that as anyone. When they say they have an open door for these conversations, they mean it. So for me, the takeaway is to bring things to leadership in advance. They may not be able to make everyone happy, but I am confident that they will try.
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Unread postby Forza_Seattle » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:58:40 pm

If lyrics were changed to 'take all orlando gays and put em against pulse wall' that would be a problem.

Take 'em lyrics sang by ECS never had any racial, ethnic, homophobic, nationalistic etc background and that's why I don't have any problems with it.
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Unread postby Nizzle » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:01:46 pm

I believe it has already been agreed upon that the song is not any of those things. Thanks.


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Unread postby spinifex » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:46:57 pm

vallenato78 wrote: My point is that the song Take em All is in my opinion not homophobic, racist or prejudiced in any way. I don't understand the calls to remove it completely. If some have differing opinions on this I would love to hear them.



I do know that Take Em All wasn't sung at the Sounders U-18 and U-16 matches, the weekend after (I think) the Sandy Hook shooting. But that was something that was discussed before the matches in detail, so the capos at those matches knew what was up, and planned accordingly.

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