Emerald City Supporters

Proud Supporters of Seattle Sounders FC

10/24/2012 :: SSFC : Marathon -- KICK 19:00

Everything match specific.

Unread postby ssfcultra » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:30:17 pm

We're already in the knockout round. However, because this tournament is fucking dumb we get seeded based on goal differential after points. Fucking dumb. So be there and be loud. Fuck (good things come in threes).

Holding thread.
User avatar
ssfcultra
Past ECS Member
 
Posts: 8716
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:55:23 pm

Unread postby finnfan » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:37:48 pm

Just curious, but how would you determine the quarter final match-ups in the new format? Random draw would be my preference. Which obviously would be obtained by saying group 1 winner against group 2 winner, group 3 v group 4, group 5 v group 6, and group 7 v group 8.
User avatar
finnfan
ECS Leadership
 
Posts: 16819
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:09:04 am
Location: Center of the Universe

Unread postby ssfcultra » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:40:07 pm

Just throw them all in a pot and let some slag with glorious boobage in an appropriately small amount of clothing select them while broadcasting to the wanking millions. Isn't that how all psuedo-random drawings should work?
User avatar
ssfcultra
Past ECS Member
 
Posts: 8716
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:55:23 pm

Unread postby endlessrevolt » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:44:42 pm

Seed them the only way I know - sealed bidding and behind-closed-doors coin flips.
endlessrevolt
Past ECS Member
 
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:22:03 pm

Unread postby ericgi » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:53:18 pm

a random draw. None of this dividing up mexican teams on one side and us teams on the other.

of course this is concacaf and they'd find a way to fuck even this up...
User avatar
ericgi
ECS Founder
 
Posts: 11284
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:17:15 am
Location: Brougham End

Unread postby finnfan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:02:11 am

ericgi wrote:a random draw. None of this dividing up mexican teams on one side and us teams on the other.

of course this is concacaf and they'd find a way to fuck even this up...

A completely random draw for the group stage wouldn't make sense, because then the groups would become totally uneven. I also like the rule about no teams from the same country in the same group. But yeah, the rule that US teams and Mexican team cannot be in the same group could go, even though that too might result in some uneven groups, so I kind of see why they are doing it. Of course, groups of four like before would be much better.

I don't suppose you were suggesting abandoning the pot system anyway, but I still wanted to say that.

And of course in the quarter finals Mexican and US teams can play each other.
User avatar
finnfan
ECS Leadership
 
Posts: 16819
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:09:04 am
Location: Center of the Universe

Unread postby bulldog » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:14:56 am

ssfcultra wrote:Just throw them all in a pot and let some slag with glorious boobage in an appropriately small amount of clothing select them while broadcasting to the wanking millions. Isn't that how all psuedo-random drawings should work?


yes :D

why is it in this part of the world they have to change every fucking thing?! :evil:
User avatar
bulldog
Past ECS Member
 
Posts: 4532
Joined: Sun Feb 1, 2009 12:35:32 am
Location: unknown

Unread postby ericgi » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:54:59 am

finnfan wrote:
ericgi wrote:a random draw. None of this dividing up mexican teams on one side and us teams on the other.

of course this is concacaf and they'd find a way to fuck even this up...

A completely random draw for the group stage wouldn't make sense, because then the groups would become totally uneven. I also like the rule about no teams from the same country in the same group. But yeah, the rule that US teams and Mexican team cannot be in the same group could go, even though that too might result in some uneven groups, so I kind of see why they are doing it. Of course, groups of four like before would be much better.

I don't suppose you were suggesting abandoning the pot system anyway, but I still wanted to say that.

And of course in the quarter finals Mexican and US teams can play each other.


I meant for the knockout rounds, not the group stages. I'm fine with the group stage format, although honestly I'd rather have the 4 team groups with mexican opponents to play the way it was last year.
User avatar
ericgi
ECS Founder
 
Posts: 11284
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:17:15 am
Location: Brougham End

Unread postby finnfan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:00:40 pm

I was confused when you mentioned "dividing up mexican teams on one side and us teams on the other". That wont be done in the knockout round.
User avatar
finnfan
ECS Leadership
 
Posts: 16819
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:09:04 am
Location: Center of the Universe

Unread postby ericgi » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:51:40 pm

well it happened that way the year RSL got to the final. Sometimes one gets the idea that concacaf does this on purpose to try and keep the competition interesting since the mexican teams pretty well have their way against non-mexican opposition.
User avatar
ericgi
ECS Founder
 
Posts: 11284
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:17:15 am
Location: Brougham End

Unread postby finnfan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:40:50 pm

ericgi wrote:well it happened that way the year RSL got to the final. Sometimes one gets the idea that concacaf does this on purpose to try and keep the competition interesting since the mexican teams pretty well have their way against non-mexican opposition.

I see. But it was a random draw that year. And Mexican teams ending up on one side of the bracket was possible only because two Mexican teams were second in their groups and two won their groups. It would not have been possible if all Mexican teams had won their groups, because for the quarter finals all pairs were drawn such that a first place team played against a second place team.

So suggesting that CONCACAF did this on purpose is.... pretty fucking far out there on the tin foil hat land.

In the draw there was a 16,7 % chance of all Mexican teams ending up on one side of the bracket. It was not a very unlikely event.
User avatar
finnfan
ECS Leadership
 
Posts: 16819
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:09:04 am
Location: Center of the Universe

Unread postby ericgi » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:07:26 pm

tin foil maybe but this is not exactly a confederation known for ethics. How else does jack warner keep a job for so long.
User avatar
ericgi
ECS Founder
 
Posts: 11284
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:17:15 am
Location: Brougham End

Unread postby Ajas » Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:49:04 pm

I like the new quarters-seeding. It for sure has flaws, especially as mentioned-- that goal-diff is a tiebreaker. You'd think to just draw lots for relative seeding of teams even on points... but whatever. It makes every game count, and every goal count.

And as it turns out, the system happened to give us a pretty big advantage playing the final round, when almost all results are in, we're at home, and our opponents have nothing to win.

The problem with random pairings is that the draw was done in private, which just invites conspiracy theory, much like KC "winning" Coin-Flip Cup this year... You could say, "Just do it publicly", but you gotta remember-- this is CONCACAF you're talking about.
User avatar
Ajas
Past ECS Member
 
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:31:45 am
Location: Woodland Park

Unread postby finnfan » Tue Oct 2, 2012 1:14:39 am

The problem is that even though it makes matches count even after the group winners have been decided, those matches are against teams that have nothing left to play for, and even many group winners will play reserve heavy teams.
User avatar
finnfan
ECS Leadership
 
Posts: 16819
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:09:04 am
Location: Center of the Universe

Unread postby Ajas » Tue Oct 2, 2012 3:06:03 am

finnfan wrote:The problem is that even though it makes matches count even after the group winners have been decided, those matches are against teams that have nothing left to play for, and even many group winners will play reserve heavy teams.


This is true, but the minimum record you can have to assure qualification (that I can think of) is 2W-0L-1D through 3 games to make the 4th irrelevant... although, since all rounds cannot be played simultaneously, that's not strictly true. but generally, if you can score that record through 3 matches you probably deserve preference in the seedings...

No QF seeding will be perfect, but this is not bad. Applying Goal diff, IMO, is the biggest flaw.
User avatar
Ajas
Past ECS Member
 
Posts: 2440
Joined: Fri Aug 7, 2009 1:31:45 am
Location: Woodland Park

Next

Return to Match Day

cron

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests