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11/18/2012 :: SSFC : LAG -- KICK 18:00 - WCF

Everything match specific.

Unread postby SeattleCalcio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:00:21 am

finnfan wrote:
Sec118LovesECS wrote:Really? You could argue that this was our best year. We were perfect in champions league group stage, US Open Cup runner-up, and our deepest playoff run yet.

It's a cruel world of sports where coming second means little, and the success in a season is determined by trophies. Yes, there are some ways in which we moved forward and that should be taken into account when making decisions in the off-season, but in terms of actual accomplishments, it was the worst of our four seasons.

I agree. but What other MLS team can compare in achievements across competitions this year? Only LAG and HOU by my estimation.
SJE - won SS, nothing else.
SKC - won USOC, Eastern regular season
LAG - won CCL group, in MLS cup final
HOU - won CCL group, in MLS cup group.

No other club had deep success in multiple competitions. Furthermore, I consider this season still alive as 2012-2013 CCL would salvage the campaign for me. If we win CCL in the spring, I'd be at least equally happy as if we'd won MLS cup.

finnfan wrote:Past success with the Sounders and other clubs does not really mean anything. Not only has the league changed a lot since many of those achievements, but also there is the well known fact that for every coach there becomes a point where they cannot take their current club any further. Sigi may or may not be there with the Sounders.

The Sigi discussion is academic of course. He is not going anywhere.

Of course not, today (and the next few weeks) are going to be a lot of emotional responses and over-reactions. We have a great squad and coaches, its not the time to make a big change.
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Unread postby Cstrom476 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:24:52 am

Sec118LovesECS wrote:
finnfan wrote:The Sigi discussion is academic of course. He is not going anywhere.

Of course not, today (and the next few weeks) are going to be a lot of emotional responses and over-reactions. We have a great squad and coaches, its not the time to make a big change.


well if they are going to be any big changes, I would start with Montero, who gives a damn if they like him, he's like old yeller that needs to be put down. his inconsistencies in the regular season and the playoffs have hurt us big time. plus he and EJ can't really get along well since it's like a battle between those two. EJ has proven his medal time and time again while Freddy try to act cute and "style points on the pitch". Montero is more of a cancer on the team than a Injury-prone Rosales with a prosthesis.
Last edited by finnfan on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: quote fixed
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Unread postby IVIaN1aC15 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:56:38 am

Cstrom476 wrote:
Sec118LovesECS wrote:
finnfan wrote:The Sigi discussion is academic of course. He is not going anywhere.

Of course not, today (and the next few weeks) are going to be a lot of emotional responses and over-reactions. We have a great squad and coaches, its not the time to make a big change.


well if they are going to be any big changes, I would start with Montero, who gives a damn if they like him, he's like old yeller that needs to be put down. his inconsistencies in the regular season and the playoffs have hurt us big time. plus he and EJ can't really get along well since it's like a battle between those two. EJ has proven his medal time and time again while Freddy try to act cute and "style points on the pitch". Montero is more of a cancer on the team than a Injury-prone Rosales with a prosthesis.


First off, I agree that Sigi will almost certainly not be leaving. My initial post is that his past three playoffs he's been out coached handily, and even Sigi should be required to under go a performance review regardless of his past credentials. The fact that we have what many believe to be either the best or very near best squad in MLS (I personally feel we have the best front 6 and keeper in the league), it is disappointing how things keep ending up with us. It's not a matter of whether Sigi has done a bad job or not, it's that I expect more from this group of guys on this team. Yes we're still in CCL while playing largely our reserves in the competition and we've shown we are capable of winning at home in the Open Cup, but neither of those translate into huge accomplishments towards reaching that domestic dominance that I think so many of us crave.

As for whom to replace Sigi if he were to hypothetically leave, I'd either promote from within in Schmetzer or look abroad. We have the money and worldwide recognition that we should be able to lure someone of quality over.

Second, before people chastise Montero, please realize what sort of player Montero is. He is not a target forward, so if you blame him for his inability to hold the ball up against Gonzalez in the first leg that is misplaced anger. He is not a goal poacher aka EJ, as he probably will not ever net a 20 goal season for us but that doesn't mean he isn't valuable. He is a creator, incredibly dynamic, and very few players can possess that little bit of special that Montero does. And in games that are very tight, you need those types of players to provide that extra bit out of nothing that is so rare in football. Off the top of my head, I can think of Portland away this year and Vancouver away last year as two very memorable goals that he scored that not many other players can do in this league.

So we can argue whether Montero is suited for our team composition which is a valid argument that I know many have had, but saying he doesn't have the quality is just more a misconception of type of player that Montero is.
Last edited by finnfan on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: quote fixed
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Unread postby Jabsco » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:37:58 am

People need to learn how to quote. And this Montero discussion has been beaten to death, and the moral of the story remains the same - Montero is quite good at this whole soccer thing, and you're wrong if you disagree.
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Unread postby SP The Ghost » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:57:20 am

Cstrom476 wrote:
Sec118LovesECS wrote:
finnfan wrote:The Sigi discussion is academic of course. He is not going anywhere.

Of course not, today (and the next few weeks) are going to be a lot of emotional responses and over-reactions. We have a great squad and coaches, its not the time to make a big change.


well if they are going to be any big changes, I would start with Montero, who gives a damn if they like him, he's like old yeller that needs to be put down. his inconsistencies in the regular season and the playoffs have hurt us big time. plus he and EJ can't really get along well since it's like a battle between those two. EJ has proven his medal time and time again while Freddy try to act cute and "style points on the pitch". Montero is more of a cancer on the team than a Injury-prone Rosales with a prosthesis.


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Unread postby RatCity » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:16:26 am

Cstrom476 wrote:
Sec118LovesECS wrote:
finnfan wrote:The Sigi discussion is academic of course. He is not going anywhere.

Of course not, today (and the next few weeks) are going to be a lot of emotional responses and over-reactions. We have a great squad and coaches, its not the time to make a big change.


well if they are going to be any big changes, I would start with Montero, who gives a damn if they like him, he's like old yeller that needs to be put down. his inconsistencies in the regular season and the playoffs have hurt us big time. plus he and EJ can't really get along well since it's like a battle between those two. EJ has proven his medal time and time again while Freddy try to act cute and "style points on the pitch". Montero is more of a cancer on the team than a Injury-prone Rosales with a prosthesis.


So arguably one of the top 3 combos is not good enough for you and they also don't get along? You know this season was the best production from our 1st team forwards ever right? 27 goals, 14 for EJ, 13 for montero. Oh and montero backed that up with 8 assists. And that was just in league play. I agree his playoff numbers sucks, but come on. Don't come with the they don't get along argument.
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Unread postby PapermakerFC » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:38:01 am

There's a special place, that I probably couldn't imagine, for people who think Montero is shit for our club.
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Unread postby SimonM » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:40:57 am

PapermakerFC wrote:There's a special place, that I probably couldn't imagine, for people who think Montero is shit for our club.


Steve Kelley's butthole.
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Unread postby PapermakerFC » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:41:55 am

SimonM wrote:
PapermakerFC wrote:There's a special place, that I probably couldn't imagine, for people who think Montero is shit for our club.


Steve Kelley's butthole.

Like I said. I couldn't imagine it, however someone setting the image up for me is completely rude. How dare you, sir. 8-) :mrgreen:
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Unread postby fortuna88 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:09:51 am

I thought I heard or read somewhere Montero and Johnson had exactly 17 goals scored each in all competitions. So Johnson scored one vs LA on Sunday giving him one more. Freddy I believe had a few more assists.
I would keep Montero. He worked his ass off this year imo and somehow made it work with Johnson coming onto the team. If Eddie Johnson would have been here first would he have been so accommodating for Freddy? Maybe a moderator can throw some total season stats out there for us please.
Think Freddy played much harder and with more heart this year than ever. What was it 5 goals in cascadia? That is huge.
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Unread postby finnfan » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:31:30 am

The club has a pretty good stats page here: http://www.soundersfc.com/team/stats/2012.aspx

Both Montero and Johnson scored 17 goals in all competitions this season (that includes EJ's goal in the playoffs). Montero had 43 matches (37 starts), Johnson had 32 matches (28 starts), so EJ needed less playing time for those goals.
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Unread postby Llarian » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:20:17 am

Yes, but Montero also had 10 assists (holy crap, didn't realize it was that many) to EJ's 3.

So its not like he didn't do anything with those extra minutes.
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Unread postby fortuna88 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:34:29 am

SimonM wrote:
PapermakerFC wrote:There's a special place, that I probably couldn't imagine, for people who think Montero is shit for our club.


Steve Kelley's butthole.

This is right up there on the top of my list for all time forum quotes.
very good sirs!
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Unread postby cethe » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:35:15 am

ok, i'm still figuring out tactics & formations, strategy etc...

but it seems to me that most of the season it was fredy's job to play hold up, playmaker and poach the occassional goal that comes his way.
so to keep up with EJ and still assist on 10 other goals, is pretty impressive IMO
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Unread postby Jabsco » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:44:21 am

It is impressive, and it's great production from our "front 2". (Someone smarter than me can probably find stats that say our pairing up top is one of the best in MLS.)

I think people (not necessarily those on this thread, but more broadly, MLS fans) completely miss the point of Fredy Montero. He's not a Wondolowski stat guy, at all, and I'd take Fredy over Wondo 11 times out of 10.
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