Emerald City Supporters

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Group based in Olympia, WA.

Unread postby SP The Ghost » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:14:26 pm

That's what the GA is and will continue to be. I at least hope you'll be able to make an informed decision next time. If you continue to sit there, you know what to expect, so don't bixc about it.
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Unread postby YukataNinja » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:04:25 pm

I see your logic in that if we are waving flags and obstructing views we are going to be turning away people who are otherwise loud and proud supporters. That if we were to cease waving flags during play our support as of right now we might be a better support group with regards to volume. But sacrificing for having the best possible support now vs what leadership views as support we can have in the future is not worth it. We want to become better. We want to become WAY better. We will not become better by stopping these type of things, we would instead stay in the same place.
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Unread postby Bathos » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:52:48 pm

Realio wrote:...

bathos, i appreciate your comments. I have interest in this "
The simple answer is that when I go in GA with ECS I'm there to 'support', not 'watch'. "
Isnt there a way to do both? It seems you imply that people should either pick one or the other, to the extent that you even admittedly have 2 sets of season tickets and have to choose which type of fan you are to be the day of the game? This seems massively counterproductive to the Sounders organization as a whole. .


First, in my wildest fantasy I have two sets of season tickets and then decide what type of fan I want to be the day of the game. Truth is I share a set of season tickets with another family in section 136. Most of the time I'm there with my family, but when I don't have those tickets then I try and get one in GA. Next year I'm going to try and get a GA season ticket so I don't have to beg, but this year I have had to.

Re: support vs. watch - if you define support like I think you do elsewhere, as being singing and chanting as loud as you can for 90 minutes, then yes, I think there is a way to do both. In fact, I think you can pretty much do that through the entire lower bowl of Qwest.

However, I define 'support' differently. My definition is not about simply singing loudly, but devoting all my energy ENTIRELY to the spectacle of support as organized by my group. Just like the capos have to face away from the field in order to organize the supporters' section, the supporter's section has to sometimes block their own view of the field in order to create the kinds of visual support that we do. This level of total (as in your're not there to watch, JUST support) is important for creating the atmosphere for the rest of the stadium. GA provides the queues and energy then that lifts the rest of the fans and, most importantly, the team. In this case, the last minutes of a match are some of the most critical for our display of support and so we need to have those flags or banners up.

Based on this definition, which I think I share with the vast majority of ECS, then it would NOT be possible to have this kind of support in other sections. For example, we should not have flags up in the other 76 sections of Qwest that aren't GA during the run of play, just in the 3 GA sections so the other 76 can watch the game.

Realio wrote:...
What strikes me as ludicrous though was the statement of an ecs member that "thats the european experience". Well ive played and attended games in europe and if you are telling me that a giant flag obstructing the home teams attacking goal for the last 5 minutes of the game and extrat time would be tolerated ANYWHERE in europe you are delusional.


I've certainly never played in Europe, but I've attended a couple matches there and in S. America, and my experience was that there were supporter sections too that did giant flag type displays during play, but this was 5 to 10 years ago so it may have changed.

However, what they do elsewhere is TOTALLY beside the point. What matters is that the supporters group HERE, in Seattle, with hundreds of active members, wants to have that kind of experience. I, for one, when I'm standing in 136, get as much enjoyment out of the ECS displays as I do out of the game sometimes. So, as a fan, that's the kind of Seattle experience I want. And, as a supporter, that's also the kind of Seattle experience I want. Considering the enjoyment the rest of the stadium gets, and the energy the team gets, it doesn't seem unreasonable to have 3 sections where the view of the field is sometimes/often blocked.
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Unread postby chamberi » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:09:59 am

Not to make light of the situation, but I find it mildly amusing that today I watched the match between FC Porto v lowly Beleneses (Freddy Adu's club), replete with a 2nd half display of 2-3 huge flags in the FC Porto supporters' section for most of the 2nd half.

As a viewer, the huge flags waving back and forth were pretty cool to see, and their songs did seem to get louder. FC Porto did come back to tie the game 1-1, but maybe that's just because Beleneses sucks.
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Unread postby BlueEyedBuddhist » Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:12:35 am

Realio wrote:Again, im so not against flags, or supporting the team, but this action detracted from the very support you and others claim is so critical to your "involvement" in the game, and is a serious tactical error by ecs leadership (if there is such a thing) in my opinion. If indeed ECS is truly not about hooliganism and definitely about doing what they feel is helpful to the squad then fighting amongst ourselves is not the answer.


It's your opinion that the flags up detracted from the support ECS offered the team. The ECS leadership believes otherwise.

I think your last last bit is true (better to not fight amongst ourselves), and so here's what it comes down to: For ECS, the group's leadership has clearly laid out their decision on this matter.

Their decision is that the atmosphere that ECS is about and is trying to create includes flags up during the run of play.

You're welcome to your opinion, but the reality is that if your belief is counter to ECS's, then ECS is not the club for you.

BHM is, at present time, a subgroup of ECS, and is actively participating in what ECS is doing in the GA section.

Therefore, I'd respectfully suggest that BHM/ECS is a poor choice for you.

This isn't ragging on you as a person; it's just evident that your beliefs regarding what "support" should be (flags vs no flags, being able to see the entire game versus supporting with flags/overheads/signs etc) don't appear compatible with the group.

As Yukata Ninja (who's one of the most thoughtful leaders of ECS) has pointed out, you might well have a point; flags up during play might mean that ECS is losing some of the supporters who would be more vocal without the flags.

That's a conscious choice by ECS, though, and thus far the fact that ECS is utterly dominating supporter groups among Sounders fanatics seems to validate that for most folks, the choices ECS is making are good ones.

This isn't to denigrate the other supporter groups; ECS works with them and we're all there to support the team.

But in the south end, the BROUGHAM END, ECS intends on dominating and doing things OUR way. Get on the train, or get off the tracks...

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Unread postby Ultra666 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:56:06 am

Being confronted because of the flags is getting really old.
By this point in the season it should be very well known that we put up the flags at the end of matches like this.
Please, for everyone's enjoyment, try to get your tickets outside of GA if you will become hostile if your view of the match is blocked.
The ECS worked hard to get the privileges we have in GA with the flags and banners. There are many supporters outside of GA that want to be apart of what we do.
If you really have to see every part of the match in all circumstances, please try to switch tickets with someone that has tickets outside of GA.
I bet there are people with tickets just outside of the GA (119/120/124/125) that would love to switch with you.
This does not make you any less of an ECS member or supporter. Please continue to sing and clap if you relocate. This will help spread the atmosphere through the stadium.
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Unread postby liquidmj » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:48:49 am

Please don't take this as GTFO, but the North End might be a better fit for you. They support too, but do it in a tamer style than the Brougham End. They do have flags too, but not nearly as many. Give it a try.
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Unread postby asoc » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:20:29 pm

This has already been talked about in here. But I want to make this point again...

We are there to Support the team first, watch the game second.

There are numerous quotes by players and coaches about how the supporters effect them during games. It is a real effect. The more energy we put out there the more they absorb and put on the field. The flags are a part of that energy. They are a part of the ECS' culture. They are not going anywhere and WILL be up during the run of play.
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Unread postby HammerEM » Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:49:21 pm

It should come without saying that if you are in the GA and took the time to find this forum, website for that matter you know what the ECS is about. Don't come and try to fight people especially in 122, your actions are not going to stop flags. It wil actually make more go up once they hear you complain. We are there for the team, not for ourselves.
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Unread postby Seattleite » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:13:11 pm

Sorry if I'm hijacking a BHM thread for general discussion...

HammerEM wrote:It should come without saying that if you are in the GA and took the time to find this forum, website for that matter you know what the ECS is about.


This is spot on, and I think identifies part of the problem. Just about everyone on the forum understands the mores of the group. It's the people who aren't on the forum, and as a result don't know any better, that cause friction. Would it be possible to have a mantra that each ECS member recites to the people on his or her immediate left and right before the game starts? Something like:

"Just so you know, as a group, we expect each person in section 122 to participate as best they are able in all of the activities (chants, flag waving, pogo-ing) that the capo deems necessary for the fullest support of the Sounders. Also, your view may be obstructed for any or ALL parts of the match. If this isn't to your liking, please move to one of the adjacent sections. Go Sounders."

Obviously this would need to be worked on, but if everyone that knows it repeats it to their neighbors, then most people in 122 would hear it. Obviously if two people next to each other know it, they will simply nod and smile in agreement. For all others, it would be a more direct way of spreading information. This way, the people around you will know what is expected of them, hopefully before any problems arise.
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Unread postby Ultra666 » Sun Nov 1, 2009 10:43:42 am

Seattleite wrote:Sorry if I'm hijacking a BHM thread for general discussion...

HammerEM wrote:It should come without saying that if you are in the GA and took the time to find this forum, website for that matter you know what the ECS is about.


This is spot on, and I think identifies part of the problem. Just about everyone on the forum understands the mores of the group. It's the people who aren't on the forum, and as a result don't know any better, that cause friction. Would it be possible to have a mantra that each ECS member recites to the people on his or her immediate left and right before the game starts? Something like:

"Just so you know, as a group, we expect each person in section 122 to participate as best they are able in all of the activities (chants, flag waving, pogo-ing) that the capo deems necessary for the fullest support of the Sounders. Also, your view may be obstructed for any or ALL parts of the match. If this isn't to your liking, please move to one of the adjacent sections. Go Sounders."

Obviously this would need to be worked on, but if everyone that knows it repeats it to their neighbors, then most people in 122 would hear it. Obviously if two people next to each other know it, they will simply nod and smile in agreement. For all others, it would be a more direct way of spreading information. This way, the people around you will know what is expected of them, hopefully before any problems arise.


Not a bad idea for next season.
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Unread postby finnfan » Sun Nov 1, 2009 11:04:50 am

I think the practice of appending a statement that is potentially controversial or divisive with "Go Sounders" in the hopes that it will soften the blow is really lame. ECS members especially should not have to do that.
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Unread postby Seattleite » Sun Nov 1, 2009 12:06:55 pm

The "Go Sounders" wasn't to soften anything; it's just a way of ending it.

It's not meant as a divisive statement, just as a way of spreading information. It seems like before the games, when the capos are giving instructions to the whole group, most people who hear it and understand already know what is being said. The people who would gain the most by hearing this are the people who aren't really paying attention to the capos (i.e. tourists). If there is a point before the match when each person says this to their neighbors, not as an in-your-face rant, but as a friendly setting of expectations, then when it's the 80th minute and we're down by a goal, they won't be surprised that they are supposed to be chanting, even if they can't see the pitch. Even if your neighbor is texting when announcements are being made, if you turn to them well before kick-off and tell them what it is going to be like, not only are they less likely to ignore you, they might even make an informed decision about whether or not 122 is the section for them.

The idea of a prewritten statement isn't to turn us into robots, it just seems like it would be easier. We could print it on song sheets, but I think reciting it face-to-face would be the most effective.
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Unread postby Bathos » Sun Nov 1, 2009 12:40:08 pm

"Go Sounders" is the 'Amen' to the ECS Benediction.
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Unread postby FuzzyForeigner » Mon Nov 2, 2009 9:56:37 am

i like some of the ideas in this thread.

you know what mostly frustrates me about this and other similar situations in the GA:

Americans (and I am one of them) will buy a product before they even know what they are buying, they rarely research their purchases and impulse buy or literally buy because others are buying regardless of whether it serves a purpose for them or not.

So now, the ECS, a group of friends that go to sounders matches to support and to have a good time, has to babysit what are in effect: poorly informed consumers. I think that is just wrong.

So the ECS has agreed in the offseason with the FO to train both security and ticket staff about the GA and what its REALLY ABOUT.

We are also getting larger, more clear signs for the GA sections
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